February 22nd Increase in Learning Reading Group

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(This is the text transcript from the Reading Group Discussion about Increase in Learning Chapter 3 Related Readings. This discussion was held on Seek on February 22, 2012.)

Emily Watts
Prayer, scripture study, and personal revelation. I'm feeling more excited by the "Sunday School answers" than I ever have been in my life after reading this section of Elder Bednar's book. Everyone is welcome to our discussion!

Beth Kirby
‎(:

Emily Watts
Hi, Beth! So good to see you again! Didn't you just love Elder Bednar's perspective on prayer?

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
These related readings were amazing!

Emily Watts
The notion of "spiritually creating the day" has been landmark for me.

Beth Kirby
It was terrific, Emily. It just really re-emphasized what I needed to remember about prayer.

Natalie Watts Gardner
I loved on the first page how he emphasised that these things would help us become "living members of the Savior's living Church". I never considered that to be a "living Church" we had to "look alive", be active, etc.

Emily Watts
So, have you ever tried to "spiritually create" a day? How did that work for you?

Rosemary Paul
Don't fully understand what is means to be a "living member"

Beth Kirby
My days seem more easy to handle if I've "spiritually created" the day. Despite that fact, I still struggle with getting my prayers in at the start of the day...

Emily Watts
It felt like my praying was more meaningful because each day is unique in some way, and so I got out of the "vain repetition" mode.

Beth Kirby
I do know that a simple of asking up front to grant me patience and understanding throughout the day does help me handle the difficult people at work.

Emily Watts
Difficult people at work, Beth? Never! (grin.) Not to mention difficult people at home (another grin.)

Beth Kirby
Silly me!

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎Rosemary - I think it means to be anxiously engaged, active, serving, loving, growing. Not just "Sunday Mormons"

Emily Watts
Rosemary: Interesting to ponder, isn't it? Thinking about the word "living" is helpful. It feels active, involved, growing.

Beth Kirby
My take on the living member is similar to Natalie's.

Rosemary Paul
I love the part of spiritually creating your day before you live it that makes sense to me. Thanks Natalie

Natalie Watts Gardner
As for spiritually creating the day, I am amazed how the Holy Ghost seems to "red flag" moments that I mentioned in prayer that morning i.e. "here is an opportunity for you to be patient with your kids like you prayed about this morning"

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Do you have the problem of getting in the right frame of mind for prayer, especially as you are busily getting ready for your day?

Emily Watts
Ann, YES. And it helps me to remember that I don't have to be perfect about it.

Beth Kirby
That's why I am a little frustrated with myself for still struggling so hard to have my morning prayer time. It does make the day oh-so-much better. I just don't know how to fix what's going on...

Emily Watts
Small, persistent efforts seem to work better over time than big splashes followed by nothing. (He says that in conjunction with scripture study).

Beth Kirby
Hmm.... I think I need that quote about the persistent efforts in plain view all around my apartment...

Emily Watts
One of my favorite prayer stories ever is the one about being counseled to offer a prayer of only thanks after the death of a friend. Have you ever tried that? Prayed only a prayer of thanks even when it seems like NOW is the time to be asking for help?

Beth Kirby
I wonder if - at least to start - I should just get in the habit of a few uttered words to help me through the day and then work on increasing the quality of my prayers?

Emily Watts
The important thing is to do SOMETHING.

Beth Kirby
OK. I resolve that tomorrow morning I will do just that Emily. Thanks!

Natalie Watts Gardner
I remember a time when my family-in-law was going through a major crisis and we knelt together as a family and my MIL (who was extremely sick) offered a prayer of only gratitude. It was an amazing experience that helped us to see the Lord's hand in the midst of the storm.

Ann Mosley Rahlf
I found that insteresting, too. The example showed clearly how to provide the support needed, without asking for help. It is a new concept for me, too.

Emily Watts
I tried offering a "gratitude-only" prayer after I had a heartbreaking experience a few weeks ago, and I was amazed at the comfort it brought, just like he said.

Beth Kirby
I do make an effort to periodically offer a prayer full of nothing but gratitude. Hadn't thought to try it after some depressing event or news...

Emily Watts
Natalie--I like the idea that the Lord's hand is always there, even in the midst of the storm. And gratitude helps us to see it.

Beth Kirby
I did really appreciate that example though.

Emily Watts
What do you think of his statement: "The prayers of prophets are childlike in their simplicity and powerful because of their sincerity."

Beth Kirby
That statement gives me goose bumps.

Beth Kirby
It's also reassuring to know that my prayers don't have to be flowery and complex and that in fact, they're more powerful if they are simple and sincere.

Emily Watts
I guess I always assumed the prophets would pray in a more "advanced" way than we do. Looks like maybe that's not the case.

Natalie Watts Gardner
I remember teaching people to pray as a missionary and those were the best prayers because they were humble, timid in approaching God (recognizing their position to him), simple, and so very sincere. Best prayers I've ever heard.

Beth Kirby
It often seems that the most difficult prayers to offer are the most powerful and yet childlike.

Emily Watts
I wonder if we lose track of how to pray "effectively" because it becomes so routine for us. We take it for granted.

Beth Kirby
Exactly, Emily! Keep it simple applies to prayers, as well.

Emily Watts
I also really liked the idea that "praying for OTHERS . . . increases our capacity to hear and to heed the voice of the Lord."

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
I really liked that too, Emily. I know that in my life, it's easy for my prayers to be focused on my life only. But the times I've tried to expand it have really helped to open my heart more.

Beth Kirby
How amazing it is to see how even in prayers, simplicity is more powerful.

Natalie Watts Gardner
And I think it increases THEIR capacity to feel our love and the Lord's love for THEM. When we pray together as a family and pray for each other by name it is amazing what happens.

Beth Kirby
I do find that if my prayers lean toward more gratitude and more concern for others I seem to get more out of them for myself.

Emily Watts
How about praying for those "who despitefully use you." Have you ever succeeded at that? It's hard for me not to make that kind of prayer about "Please make them stop being so bratty."

Rosemary Paul
Emily - I think the sincerity of the prophets is because they feel how much the Lord loves us. I like the comment also that saids “If those we love and serve have not heard and felt the influence of our earnest prayers in their behalf, then the time to repent is now.”

Emily Watts
Rosemary: I loved that line too!

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Natalie, re-reading your comment on being "Sunday Mormon's". A co-worker was talking about someone she had met that was really happy, and that she must be a member of some religious organization, as "they seem to be the one's I find to be that way". That was an eye opener for me. Do I have that contenence?

Emily Watts
Ann--I wonder, if we were truly "praying always," if our countenance would be a better reflection of that.

Emily Watts
I love talking about prayer, but I don't want to miss the other two readings for this chapter. I loved how he started the next one, by pointing out that the most valuable mineral of all is WATER.

Ann Mosley Rahlf
That is a good question. I find it quite difficult to keep a place in my mind and heart for prayer, when my brain is so busy with my work.

Beth Kirby
I often wonder how I can get that "countenance"

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎Beth- I don't think you can just get the countinance yourself. It is a gift of the Spirit that comes from being cleansed and sanctified. It's "the glow" that radiates after the Spirit cleanses us because we are striving to become more like the Savior.

Beth Kirby
But does that mean that if my glow is not noticeable that I am not doing those things well enough or trying hard enough, Natalie?

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
Beth, I think sometimes we don't notice the glow we have ourselves but others do. My husband had a really cool experience on his mission where he felt discouraged but a lady sought out the missionaries and later he found out it was because she'd seen him and his companion and thought they were radiating happiness.

Natalie Watts Gardner
Beth, I think the last person to "see the glow" is ourselves. I notice it in others WAY before I notice it in myself because I am my own worst critic.

Beth Kirby
Was I the only one who struggled (at least at first) differentiating between "clinging to the rod" and "holding fast" to it?

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Oh yeah, that took me a bit to understand, too.

Beth Kirby
It took me a bit to see a difference - cling means I am holding so tight that eventually my hands and arms and fingers hurt and my muscles start to fatigue. I have to let go and rest before I am able to cling again.

Beth Kirby
But holding fast is simple steady and consistent pressure - not holding with all of my might.

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
To me, cling means more desperate whereas holding fast means confidently.

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Beth, what happens when you "let go"?

Beth Kirby
You fall/drop or whatever you are holding drops....

Emily Watts
Beth: Interesting choice of words, "holding with all of MY might." Maybe "holding fast" depends more on the Lord than on ourselves?

Rosemary Paul
Beautiful thought Natalie! think I will copy that. Thanks

Ann Mosley Rahlf
and is that the times we find ourselves struggeling the most?

Beth Kirby
Yes, Ann. I think those are the times we find we are struggling the most.

Beth Kirby
That's a good point Emily. Whose might am I relying on when I have hold of the rod. Mine? Or God's?

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎"Clinging and letting go" could be likened to really good study 2-3 times a month. Holding fast is consistant, daily, never letting go.

Beth Kirby
So it's a combination of the firmness and pressure of my own grip and how much I am relying on the Lord that distinguishes "clinging" from "holding fast?"

Emily Watts
Consistent, "holding-fast" scripture study is one of my hardest things. Time, again. Busy-ness of life. But then, I realize I always seem to be able to squeeze in stuff like Downton Abbey.

Beth Kirby
Now we know one of your guilty pleasures, Emily! (: But yeah, it's been the same with me. Things are easier to handle when I let the spiritual stuff take presedence of "guilty pleasures"

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Right, Emily, consistency, that is a majr key in going forward. One of my favorite scriptures is "line upon line, precept upon precept".

Emily Watts
But I have loved trying his three different ways of studying the scriptures. Which do you find yourself most drawn to?

Beth Kirby
As I read that, Emily, I realize that I have been doing more and more of a combination of all 3 recently - since starting this book, in fact. I haven't necessarily been doing one over the other per se - though I think the studying by topic is one way I use the least....

Beth Kirby
Elder Bednar repeats the line upon line precept throughout each of the related reading samples.

Tina Standage Bushman
Just joining so can I just indulge and share a moment I had with prayer this week? I decided to take the "gratitude only" challenge when praying about my children. As I thought about each one, I suddenly remembered prayers from years ago that I had said in their behalf that took so long to be answered or were answered so gradually, I didn't even recognize when they were answered. I spent a long time just being grateful for all those unrecognized answers. I'm so glad I took that challenge.

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎Tina *like* What a cool experience thanks for sharing!

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎Beth, about the grip - I think that there are times in my life where I "cling" to the Lord hoping that MY will will happen instead of confidently trusting and "holding fast" to his will. Fear = the death grip, Faith = the confident "hold fast"

Emily Watts
Tina, sometimes the hardest thing is to be patient while the answers unfold.

Beth Kirby
One thing that has made my scripture time more meaningful is applying while I'm reading cover-to-cover what I am reading to me. Is there a way I can incorporate a spiritual concept that I've just read better?

Ann Mosley Rahlf
I think I am a bit older than most of you, and have seen the outcomes of his principles played out in my life over decades. Like you, Tina, a realization of long ago prayers coming to pass over decades.

Emily Watts
Re: clinging versus holding fast: Picture a child holding your hand. Sometimes they cling and whine and almost expect to be carried; other times they just walk calmly with their hands in yours. That makes the image clearer for me.

Tina Standage Bushman
When I recommit to studying more consistently, I always start reading beginning to end with a purpose in mind. Then usually I'll come to a passage I really like and start jumping around to related scriptures. So I suppose that is the topic method?

Tina Standage Bushman
And that clingy child is probably the one that will run off at the first shiny thing they see.

Emily Watts
Tina: So true!

Natalie Watts Gardner
LOL Tina.

Emily Watts
I've embarked on a new beginning-to-end adventure with the scriptures, but this time, I'm seeing a lot more connections, patterns, and themes than I've ever noticed before. I'm loving that!

Beth Kirby
That's been my experience too, Emily! The patterns and themes and connections have been more evident to me lately.

Tina Standage Bushman
Holding steadfast seems to take more discipline, like it's more of a deliberate choice that I will read my scriptures.

Natalie Watts Gardner
I feel like "Lehi's Dream" is woven all throughout the Book of Mormon now - not just in those first few chapters.

Beth Kirby
I'd say currently I'm in the combination of reading cover-to-cover and searching mode of drinking from the living waters right now. Though I do have times when what I need more than my usual reading 'schedule" is to use the TG and Index to the Triple and look for scriptures on certain topics. But I find I need to to do that or my "schedule" I can't do both.

Natalie Watts Gardner
I have a friend that gets "floppy copy" Book of Mormon and each time she reads with a different theme in mind and marks up/writes in the book accordingly.

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
I have a friend who does that too Natalie. I was just about to ask if anyone else has tried it?

Emily Watts
Natalie, I love that approach. I rarely get all the way through, unfortunately. I'm way too easily distracted.

Ann Mosley Rahlf
I've heard of grandmother's doing that, then giving the book to a grandchild to help them learn more about her.

Emily Watts
Ann, what a cool idea!

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
Like you had brought up earlier, Emily, how Elder Bednar speaks of water. Isn't it cool thinking that grandmothers can pass on their reservoir of living water to their grandkids!

Emily Watts
Beth, again, I think the point is to do SOMETHING. We wouldn't dream of going a full day without drinking physically (unless we were intentionally fasting). How cool would it be if our need for scriptures were as palpable.

Beth Kirby
True, Emily.

Beth Kirby
I tend to start needing a new fresh copy of scriptures as time goes on, but can't afford to keep buying them, because of all my marks from previous readings or from lessons/talks in church. I should try that method though.I think it would be very beneficial...

Emily Watts
I LOVED his story about how he prepared to give a talk on "gathering." Can't you just see him cutting out all those little verses and piling them up?

Beth Kirby
That brings a smile to my face each time I read it, Emily. This vision in my head of Elder Bednar and his piles of marked scriptures...

Beth Kirby
Maybe I should try Elder Bednar's copy, mark, cut, organize method too - at least once.

Tina Standage Bushman
I did laugh too. Because he was gathering about gathering.

Emily Watts
Tina, LOL!

Emily Watts
It shows how seriously the Apostles take their responsibility when they speak, too, which makes me take general conference a lot LESS for granted!

Natalie Watts Gardner
I remember a story of Joseph Smith and the Nauvoo legion wandering on the plains and they were out of water. Joseph prayed for the Lord to show them where to dig for water and then they started digging and found a spring and were saved. Having that in mind I pray that the Lord will show me where to "dig" in my reading because I am in a wilderness of scripture and there is just too much but HE can show me where to focus my study and dig to bring me the "living water" I need for the day

Beth Kirby
LIKE! Natalie.

Emily Watts
Natalie, great image!

Rosemary Paul
Thanks Natalie - going to quote you again on my facebook pages.

Emily Watts
Elder Bednar just feels so brilliant to me, it's interesting to get a perspective on how hard he works to learn.

Natalie Watts Gardner
The brilliant thing is he is doing what ALL OF US CAN DO! It doesn't take a PhD to cut and paste and gather...

Beth Kirby
Yes! Emily! So true!

Emily Watts
We've only got a few minutes, and we HAVE to talk for a bit about personal revelation. Did you love his "two experiences with light"?

Beth Kirby
That was one of my favorite talks from last April's conference, Emily. I don't know how many times I've read that talk!

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Jumping a little forward to revelation's. Do any of you find it frustrating to "know" there is a message of great value, but don't have time/strength/endurance to figure out what it is?

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎Ann YES.

Emily Watts
Ann, I had to read it three times before it began to really, truly, sink in. But it is definitely penetrating.

Emily Watts
‎"Sometimes the sun rises on a morning that is cloudy or foggy." But we still recognize that the day has come. I LOVE THAT!

Beth Kirby
I do love the image of the sun rise on a foggy/cloud/overcast day. There have been a few things that have been given to me like that and of course I did not realize it until well after the fact.

Tina Standage Bushman
I loved that part too, living in the cloudy Northwest. I understood that analogy perfectly.

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Emily, that is how I feel about this book! It comes at a time of darkness for me.

Emily Watts
A time of darkness is when we need this kind of light the most. And in a time of darkness, even a little bit of light can be extra effective!

Natalie Watts Gardner
And yet I suppose the Lord designed it that way so we would appreciate it more because we had to really work for it. AND we would be more obedient to that revelation as well.

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
So true, Natalie! As we work for it, we understand and appreciate what we've learned in an entirely different way than we would have if it was handed to us on a silver platter.

Ann Mosley Rahlf
So true Krisy. Which leads to the question we have to ask ourselves what do we put our energy into?

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
Wow, what a perfect question Ann.

Tina Standage Bushman
I have a little solar powered penguin in my kitchen window. Even on cloudy days, he'll occassionally dance. He knows there is a ltiny bit of sunlight coming through those clouds even if I can't. Enough to make him dance even. I wish I was more like that penguin somedays.

Emily Watts
Natalie and Krisy, I love the quote he gives from President Joseph F. Smith, "The Lord WITHHELD marvels from me, and showed me the truth, line upon line, until He MADE ME TO KNOW the truth. (Sorry for yelling--no italics )

Beth Kirby
That was an excellent way to help me to know that not even prophets get their testimonies by marvelous things. They get them the way we do. :)

Emily Watts
I have heard that time is like tithing: if you use it how the Lord intends, He helps it stretch farther. Maybe we don't put in the time to seeking personal revelation because it feels like too much effort, when if we WOULD put in the time, we'd have more strength to make the effort. Does that make sense?

Beth Kirby
Yes, Emily! Perfect sense!

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎Ann I think of the lights in Las Vegas that you can see for miles away as you drive into the city at night, but they will NEVER be as brilliant as the sun. Sometimes I put my energy and become caught up "in the thick of THIN things" and they bring little flickers of fake light that satisfies for a moment but they are NEVER as brilliant as putting your energy and time to the Son.

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎Emily *LOVE*

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Amen, Natalie.

Emily Watts
Wish I could get that notion from my head to my heart. Still working on moving from "knowledge" to "understanding."

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
I don't know about the rest of you but thinking about what I put my time into and getting caught up in the thick of thin things is just what I need to be hearing today... Thank you. :)

Beth Kirby
I needed it too, Krisy!

Tina Standage Bushman
I thought of my teens when I read the knowledge to understanding part! I'm going to figure out how to turn the "I know, Mom" into "I understand, Mom"!

Natalie Watts Gardner
‎Tina - YES.

Ann Mosley Rahlf
Tina, Elder Bednar would be proud!

Emily Watts
Speaking of time, we're about out of it.

Tina Standage Bushman
I feel like my reservoir was filled just reading about how it needs to be filled. And it left me thristing for more. What I love most about these readings is the desire it plants in my heart to try a little harder to be a little better. So thank you!

Beth Kirby
Agreed, Tina!

Tina Standage Bushman
I know I should thank Elder Bednar, but knowing it will be discussed makes me read more carefully and prepares me to share what I know whether I do here or not. So thanks for the discussion opportunity.

Natalie Watts Gardner
Ever consider having an evening group? This is WAY better than prime time television...

Emily Watts
Natalie, interesting idea. Maybe we'll try that with another book sometime.

Emily Watts
Thanks, all of you, for your great comments! This discussion forum really helps me dig deeper, and I'm always better for it. See you next week!

Beth Kirby
Next week! (:

Krisy Bennett Shaughnessy
Me too, Emily! Thank you all of you for helping me dig deeper!

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